The Art of The Long-Form Conversation

“Whereas traditional media outlets like TV, radio, film, etc. are usually of a certain length whether its 30 minutes, an hour, or 2 hours, podcasts can go on for more than even that with some podcasts clocking in at 4 to 5 hours without stopping.”

I really love podcasts and I have loved them for years. They have been around since the 2000s but only really became mainstream during the last decade of the 2010s. Their popularity to me involves the fact that you really can do a deep dive on any subject under the sun without being constrained to a time limit. Whereas traditional media outlets like TV, radio, film, etc. are usually of a certain length whether its 30 minutes, an hour, or 2 hours, podcasts can go on for more than even that length with some podcasts clocking in at 4 to 5 hours without stopping.

It is not easy to have an uninterrupted conversation for so long but there is a real art to it that stands out these days from other forms of popular media. The hosts can pick and choose how many guests they have, their background, as well as how long they would like each podcast to be. Instead of a news report, a sports segment, or a weather minute, where the host or correspondent will be cut off abruptly, a podcast allows the information to be fully thought out without interruptions or commercials. There can be the occasional advertisement read, bathroom break, or even an impromptu cut off of a podcast due to the guest or host needing to leave the studio early, but for the most part, podcasts are an extremely rare form of media that really is not constrained by lack of space, time, or platforms.

Back in the early days of media, you used to have to rely on a corporation or government funding to get your message out, but today, you can self-fund and self-host your own podcast. There are also different crowdfunded platforms like Patreon, Megaphone or popular website platforms for video and audio like YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, etc. where you can put your podcast on. There are a wealth of choices and a lot of different technology available to make hosting a long-form conversation easier than ever.

The beauty of hearing or watching these conversations is you get to learn from experts in a variety of fields from comedy to film to music to art to sports where you won’t have to pay a dime to tune in. Even if you pay a flat fee to a podcast hosting platform, you will have access to more podcasts and conversations than you can listen to or watch in a lifetime. There are thousands, if not, millions of podcasts available in the world in every major language. Such a wealth of information is something we could not fathom twenty or so years ago.

In an age of short attention spans and ten-second videos, the long-form conversation is still very much in demand. People may enjoy Instagram Reels, TikTok Videos, or a Tweet, but you will never get the same kind of details, wisdom, or knowledge from your average two-hour podcast. Podcasts are not perfect and often come with the bias of the hosts or the guests involved but it’s good to watch or listen to them with an open-mind and an open-heart.

The sheer number of efforts behind the scenes to make a long-form conversation happen should not be ignored. There are a lot of cameras, microphones, sound design, video quality, and getting the guests to appear, which would take a whole production team to put together. Podcasts do not have to be fancy like that but the more popular they become, the more they rival traditional media forms for both the amount of investment and the amount of time it takes to make them happen.

The core of any podcast though is the quality of the conversation, and the best podcasts are those where the host is patient, asks good questions, can answer them from the guest himself or herself, and will describe to the audience what is going on in case they are doing both an audio and a video feed. The most popular podcast in the world, The Joe Rogan Experience, started over ten years ago, and it was far from a polished product in the first episode.

It was not a fancy set with multiple team members and a lot of advanced gear. Instead, it was Joe Rogan, his computer, a microphone, and the help of a friend, who would bring on his friends, to talk about what’s on their minds. Now, it became the most popular podcast in the world not just the host is also a famous comedian, Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) commentator, and a former TV and radio show host, but the fact that Joe is patient, understanding, and aware of how the conversation is going.

He can listen for long periods of time without interrupting, is able to get more out of his guests if they are shy, introverted, or not able to talk at length without prompting, and he genuinely knows about each person(s) he has on his podcast. The conversation easily flows because him and the guest do not talk over each other, when they disagree it’s not a big deal, and it doesn’t hurt also that he has some coffee or liquor on hand to make it a more inviting podcast studio.

With almost 2000 episodes under his belt, Joe Rogan among other popular podcast hosts like Marc Maron, Lex Fridman, Andrew Huberman, Sam Harris have not only put a lot of effort, time, and money for the audio and video experience to be good for the audience, but they have also trained themselves well in the art of talking with other people and in being a good host to a wide diversity and variety of guests from all over the world.

Podcasting is a necessary media in today’s tumultuous, fast-changing, and unpredictable world. I find that these conversations are meaningful, educational, and insightful. I do still watch TV and listen to radio programming, but it is impossible to beat the quality and knowledge that is dropped on a good podcast every day.

From news to sports to politics to music and even comedy, there are such good long-form conversations to be had from your average podcast. Whereas the news program will end on the hour, or the radio show will cut off every thirty minutes, you can find multiple podcasts analyzing different topics at a deeper level so that your knowledge and understanding will be much deeper than it would be from your average TV program these days. It is easy for me to see why podcasts in the 21st century is here to stay and why they are number #1 source of information in order technologically dependent world.

While podcasts with long conversations can be prone to bias, misinformation, controversy, and even backtracking after the fact, I still believe that there is no better way to learn from an expert or practitioner in a certain area of human endeavor than by settling into a two or three or even a five hour podcast with just hearing their voice and hearing what they have to say without any commercial or other interruption. If you have not listened to a podcast at this point in 2023, you should start now and remember to watch or listen to the whole podcast even if it is a few hours long. You’ll often be glad that you did at the end of it, and you’ll often learn a lot as a result.

The Need for Critical Thinking

Facts are a tricky thing, but the importance and recognition of them is vital in order to consider yourself a critical thinker. In this era of ‘alternative facts’ and opinionated media, it’s necessary to be able to read, analyze, and think about all of the information that you’ve been taking in and figure out for yourself if it’s truthful or nonsense. In this day and age, opinions are easy to find everywhere but what have become harder to find are the cold, hard facts. The famous expression, “take it with a grain of salt” can be applied to you if you want to be a critical thinker.

The first thing you have to do, as a critical thinker is to be able to sort out the facts from the falsehoods. You should be able to use more than one source of information and before you use those sources of information, you need to verify that they are both unbiased and trustworthy. The evidence that you gather for these facts have to be based off of real sources, who have compiled the information and verified its’ authenticity.

For example, if you’re a Chemistry student and you’re trying to do an experiment on making a chemical volcano, would you choose to get the information from an actual scientist who has their PhD and teaches Chemistry at a local university or would you trust the advice of a best friend in your Science class instead?

While it’s desirable to be a good friend and trust them because they would like to help you most likely, it’s likely their advice will pale in comparison to the Chemistry professor with the PhD who wrote a ‘how to’ article on chemical experiments in the latest edition of ‘Science Weekly.’ If you’re a critical thinker, you would choose option #2 100% of the time because you would like to create an experiment that’s going to be the best that it can be and using your friend’s advice won’t get you to that point.

Regardless of what professional or educational field that you decide to pursue, you’re going to need critical thinking. Being inherently skeptical at first of the information you’re receiving is important to do because you need to be able to discern if what you’re reading, watching, listening to, etc. is factual. In your daily life, you’re going to need to identify prejudice, bias, propaganda, etc. that you’re likely to encounter in your daily life. You have to do your best to discern fact from fiction even if it takes some time. You could decide to ingest every bit of information that you see in the news or at the office as being factual but it would benefit you instead to deep a bit digger by doing your research, verify the source(s), bounce it off other pieces of information to see if there’s a pattern, and then decide if it’s factual.

A true critical thinker is not lazy and does not take shortcuts. He or she goes the extra mile to gather the right information, prioritize it to give it credence in your decision-making, and then recognize, solve the problems in order to move on to the next goal. If you’re in a field where you’re working with data on the computer, you have to be able to interpret it, evaluate it, and then use it for your business or company’s needs. By being able to communicate effectively and clearly is also a necessity when it comes to being able to take those fresh facts you’ve verified and then pass it on to the next person so they know that they’re not being misled by you.

As a critical thinker, it’s also necessary to disregard generalizations made about complex topics, which require in-depth research and analysis. Instead, critical thinking also necessitates the ability to draw conclusions from the evidence and the facts that you have gathered. Then, you have to be able to pass those conclusions on to the right people so they know what’s true and what’s false.

Conclusions that you’ve made in the past can sometimes change in the present or in the future so it’s vital to not be stubborn about your beliefs. Critical thinking requires that you also be flexible in your beliefs especially if you’re able to take in new evidence, and logic. A man or a woman who does not change their views on anything despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary cannot consider himself or herself to be a true critical thinker. While it can be difficult to let go of your innate biases and prejudices, you still should be open-minded and be able to accept the truth and the facts even if they contradict with yours.

If your mother, someone who you loved and respected, happened to have told you one day that the sky was the color red instead of blue, would you accept her statement at face value or would you go outside of the house to check, verify her statement to see if it was true or false? If you are not a critical thinker and a great son, you would choose option #1 and believe that statement without actually checking to see if it’s true. If you are a critical thinker but still a good son, you would choose option #2 and tell your mother later that the sky is actually blue because you went outside to see its’ color for yourself. Even if your mom might be offended by your conclusion, she would still love and respect you for being a critical thinker as is necessary.

To put it bluntly, there are a lot of people out there in different industries that are not critical thinkers and they’re hoping the same about you. I don’t want to name names but you’re likely to encounter them in your neighborhood, your city, and your city. However, if you’re able to develop the right personal habits and characteristics, you’ll be able to set yourself apart as a real critical thinker rather than just a person who believes what he hears, reads, or listens to all of the time regardless of the source it’s coming from.

Those habits involve being a problem solver, an evidence gatherer, a decision maker, a rational thinker, being able to reason with others, and an inquisitive learner above all else. While critical thinking isn’t mandatory in life, you’ll still go a lot further and succeed more when you put those skills and habits to use when compared to those who don’t. If you’re an open-minded, intelligent, mature, and inquisitive person, you’ll turn out to be a good critical thinker and a positive example for others to follow.

A Wealth of Knowledge

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“The sharing and exchange of knowledge is easier now than it has ever been in human history.”

There has been no other time in human history than in today’s era where the average person with access to the Internet can seemingly have unlimited amounts of information available to him or her. When you truly think about the magnitude of it, untold amounts of data are being created every day. According to IBM, “The current estimate is 2.5 quintillion bytes of data per day and over 90% of the data in the world today has been created in the past two years alone.”

A common response nowadays from both family and friends when I ask a question to them about a random query is not a straight-forward answer but rather an off-handed suggestion to “Google it.” Living in this era of ‘Big Data’ can be quite overwhelming to the average person but one could also look into it as an opportunity to gain knowledge and further ones’ understanding on a limitless amount of subjects with the simple click of a mouse. The Internet is an amalgamation of thousands of libraries of Alexandria at the beck and call of one’s fingertips.

Compared to past ages when information and knowledge was more exclusive and harder to come by, today’s era allows everyone with an Internet connection to search and find information to their heart’s content. Instead of going to a library to find what you need on a subject, websites like Google, Wikipedia, and other online encyclopedias have largely replaced the main role of the physical library. I remember when I was younger and in my high school days having to seek out certain books in order to write a research paper or complete a book report.

However, now more than ever, you can easily find the sources of information you need online in order to facilitate your research and evidence. While I love libraries and hope that they never go out of style, the reality is that online encyclopedias and eBooks are largely replacing their original purpose. In order for libraries to stay relevant, they need to start incorporating computers, free Wi-Fi, and technical classes in order to remain useful.

From the 18th to the 20th centuries, universities and colleges across America were the standard bearers and purveyors of higher education. Originally for the elite, wealthy, and well connected, those students who were able to get accepted and afford undergraduate and graduate studies believed that they would have an advantage in the job market and in achieving the American Dream. More recently, as colleges and universities have become more inclusive than exclusive, tuition prices have inversely risen as well.

While higher education has become accessible to more and more young Americans, it also has become more expensive especially over the past decade. These events have led to an ongoing debate as to whether college is really worth the price tag and whether the average student gains anything from earning a four-year degree. With student loan debt at an all-time high of $1.3 trillion in 2015 in the United States and tuition rates at both public and private universities continuing to rise, people are beginning to look for alternatives to the current higher education system.

Over the past decade, there has been a drastic proliferation of massive open online courses (MOOCs) provided by both private companies and traditional universities. At a much lower price and sometimes free, people from all over the world can sign-up for these courses and partake in lectures, tests, quizzes, and papers as if they were actual enrolled undergraduate and graduate students at the physical form of the university. As the credentials and certifications bestowed upon these courses continue to increase and become more widely accepted, we may begin to see ‘the end of college’ as we know it.

Examples like Khan Academy, edX, Coursera, Udacity, etc. and other MOOCs have leveled the playing field. Tech entrepreneurs from Silicon Valley have allowed students from all over the world to access unlimited online courses to further their academic knowledge at a lower price. With the subsequent rise in online university programs for undergraduates and graduates, the physical college experience of dormitories, lecture halls, football stadiums, etc. may become less appealing to students as tuition prices continue to increase. While the social and networking benefits of college life are numerous, they may not be enough to compete with this era of free information that we are living in.

Compared to past decades, we’re living in a time when access to the Internet is at an all-time high and is increasingly rapidly due to the rise of mobile technology. Traditional havens of knowledge such as the library or the public university will have to adapt to stay relevant in this unlimited information age. In a worldwide job market that is evolving rapidly and where the average child today will work in an industry not yet created, the free exchange of knowledge must continue to spread through the worldwide web.

Countless others and I have benefited from taking online coding courses on ‘Codeacademy’ to learning new languages on ‘Duolingo.’ As MOOCs and online universities continue to develop their courses and credentials, we may begin to see an era where the average person can earn a degree or two without breaking the bank. MOOCs are cheaper, less time intensive, and can adapt more easily to the rapidly changing employment market.

A well-educated population is now more possible now than ever with the wealth of knowledge and information that is available. That fact is evident but it also is up to the individual to be willing to search for that information and actually apply it. Instead of getting frustrated with people asking me to ‘Google’ the answer, I find that it’s worth the hassle because it’s often true that I will find the answers I’m looking for and in greater detail than if I were to ask a friend or family member for a quick description. That’s the power of the Internet. That’s the wealth of knowledge that we are able to take advantage of.

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